Discussion:
Help U Sell, any good ?
(too old to reply)
Steve Horrillo
2005-07-04 17:36:00 UTC
Permalink
any experiences , you might share?
--
Money doesn't just talk, it swears.
I've trained a couple of Help U Sell offices. The owner's seem to be honest
and believe in their system. Yet IMO the business model is very flawed. If
you use their marketing without going into the MLS you are severely limiting
your exposure to qualified buyers. You will only get results if you sell
under market value. If you don't mind getting top dollar you'll be happy. If
they have to put you on the MLS you best make sure they pay the Buyer's
agent at least 3%.

The best approach is to coordinate the time you have to sell with the sales
price you need to get. The rule of thumb I use is, with full (MLS)exposure,
if your house sells in less than 60 days you've under priced it.

I used to work for www.buyowner.com / www.mlsrealty.com. IMO their system is
the best if you can't see clear to doing it the traditional way.
--
Warmest regards,

Steve Horrillo, Realtor / C.Ht.
http://BrokerAgentTraining.com (MLXchange & Computer Training for Real
Estate Professionals)
http://over100percent.com (Realtors Earn Over 100 Percent at EXIT Realty)
http:/HipFSBO.com (Object to Paying Commission? Find a FSBO Friendly Real
Estate Professional)
http://eLOWn.com ("Got a heartbeat?" Get a loan! Credit Repair Library)
V
2005-07-04 18:01:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Horrillo
any experiences , you might share?
--
Money doesn't just talk, it swears.
I've trained a couple of Help U Sell offices. The owner's seem to be honest
and believe in their system. Yet IMO the business model is very flawed. If
you use their marketing without going into the MLS you are severely limiting
your exposure to qualified buyers. You will only get results if you sell
under market value. If you don't mind getting top dollar you'll be happy. If
they have to put you on the MLS you best make sure they pay the Buyer's
agent at least 3%.
The best approach is to coordinate the time you have to sell with the sales
price you need to get. The rule of thumb I use is, with full
(MLS)exposure,
if your house sells in less than 60 days you've under priced it.
I used to work for www.buyowner.com / www.mlsrealty.com. IMO their system is
the best if you can't see clear to doing it the traditional way.
I disagree with some of your points. I'm a Realtor for a large discount
brokerage franchise. We offer MLS services (as does help-u-sell) but not
all of our sellers choose to be listed on the MLS. A lot of them cannot
afford - or do not choose to pay - the co-broke's fee... or they're simply
not in a hurry to sell and would like to save as much as possible. I
*always* point out that their home will gain more exposure on the MLS,
thereby *probably* getting a faster sale...but still about half choose not
to go that route. It usually depends on whether they NEED to sell and how
quickly. If their home sits on a heavily-traveled road and the asking price
is low enough to appeal to first time buyers, I have had an excellent track
record selling the home without the use of the MLS. The point you made that
I *strongly* disagree with is that you'll only get results if you sell under
market value. I do not under-price homes nor does anyone in our office that
I know of.....we look at the same MLS system to pull comps as a full service
agent does. I refuse to list if it's grossly over-priced just like you or
anyone here probably has. My sellers have input as to where to price the
home, but I still reserve the right to accept the listing or not. If the
program didn't work and I didn't feel passionately about it, I wouldn't be
part of it. Discount programs like help-u-sell work very well as long as
you don't allow an unethical agent to grossly under-price your home - but
that can happen in the full-service program just as easily as it does in a
"fee for service" program.
Steve Horrillo
2005-07-05 14:43:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by V
The point you made that
I *strongly* disagree with is that you'll only get results if you sell under
market value. I do not under-price homes nor does anyone in our office that
I know of.....we look at the same MLS system to pull comps as a full service
agent does. I refuse to list if it's grossly over-priced just like you or
anyone here probably has. My sellers have input as to where to price the
home, but I still reserve the right to accept the listing or not.
I find it hard to believe you walk away from overpriced listings. It's their
home, they have the right to at least try to sell it at the price they want.
They may need to sell it at that price or they won't have the money to
accomplish their goals or pay off the liens on the property. If you did a
Net Sheet you might discover that they have no choice but to over-price the
home. Do you do a Net Sheet? Do you know how to get a lender to take a Short
Sale?

Realtors, as part of their sales pitch, often use the rationalization that
if the owner initially puts the price too high, "they miss out on the
initial "buzz" that's created among the Butyer's Agents. That's true if you
don't have any skill beyond what the average Realtor has. At any time you
can cancel that listing and republish it with a new price, pictures and MLS
Number. This causes a whole new set of emails to be sent out as well. Not to
mention you should send out emails to all the Agents in your area. When I do
that I get 20-30 responses that I would ordinarily not have had. Do you have
a method for bulk emailing fellow agents? My list is 50,000 and growing.
When your client's home gets shown do you follow up with the Agent to see
why they didn't put in an offer? Do you offer them ways to try to compel
their client to buy? Do you try to get the seller to sweeten the terms
rather that lowering the price.

They also rationalize that if it's too high price the house won't appraise
and buyer won't get the loan. This may be true if you don't know how to
market the home properly. It's a number's game. The more potential buyers
you have, the greater your chance of finding someone who has no problem
putting 20-30% + as a down payment. If you're not skilled at influencing an
appraiser. If you don't have a good mortgage broker. If you have a scarcity
of buyers. Then yes, you need to compensate by lowering the or the price the
listing.

Like I said in previous posts. I would routinely put the home in the MLS and
in the For Sale By Owner system. At least 3% higher in the MLS. The MLS
consistently out performed the FSBO advertising. To not put them on the MLS,
you're simply getting their business by appealing to their innate greed. As
a Realtor you should know by now the MLS is the best way to go. If you have
a FSBO advertising system set up then use that too and price it lower in
that system. But to not put them on the MLS when you have it at your
disposal is pure negligence.

I started out at a company like yours. I too rationalized away the truth
that was staring me in the face. But if you have any sort of conscience
you're eventually going to become disillusioned.

In sales "the drop" is a method used by sales people who have no other
negotiating or sales skills. Drop the price. Drop your commission. Appeal to
the sellers greed. It's the easy way out. That's the only thing an unaided
FSBO has going for them. As a Realtor you have a lot more tools at your
disposal. You are not acting in the best interest of your client if not use
everything you have at your disposal.
--
Warmest regards,

Steve Horrillo, Realtor / C.Ht.
http://BrokerAgentTraining.com (MLXchange & Computer Training for Real
Estate Professionals)
http://over100percent.com (Realtors Earn Over 100 Percent at EXIT Realty)
http:/HipFSBO.com (Object to Paying Commission? Find a FSBO Friendly Real
Estate Professional)
http://eLOWn.com ("Got a heartbeat?" Get a loan! Credit Repair Library)
V
2005-07-05 22:28:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Horrillo
Post by V
The point you made that
I *strongly* disagree with is that you'll only get results if you sell under
market value. I do not under-price homes nor does anyone in our office that
I know of.....we look at the same MLS system to pull comps as a full service
agent does. I refuse to list if it's grossly over-priced just like you or
anyone here probably has. My sellers have input as to where to price the
home, but I still reserve the right to accept the listing or not.
I find it hard to believe you walk away from overpriced listings. It's their
home, they have the right to at least try to sell it at the price they want.
They may need to sell it at that price or they won't have the money to
accomplish their goals or pay off the liens on the property. If you did a
Net Sheet you might discover that they have no choice but to over-price the
home. Do you do a Net Sheet? Do you know how to get a lender to take a Short
Sale?
Realtors, as part of their sales pitch, often use the rationalization that
if the owner initially puts the price too high, "they miss out on the
initial "buzz" that's created among the Butyer's Agents. That's true if you
don't have any skill beyond what the average Realtor has. At any time you
can cancel that listing and republish it with a new price, pictures and MLS
Number. This causes a whole new set of emails to be sent out as well. Not to
mention you should send out emails to all the Agents in your area. When I do
that I get 20-30 responses that I would ordinarily not have had. Do you have
a method for bulk emailing fellow agents? My list is 50,000 and growing.
When your client's home gets shown do you follow up with the Agent to see
why they didn't put in an offer? Do you offer them ways to try to compel
their client to buy? Do you try to get the seller to sweeten the terms
rather that lowering the price.
They also rationalize that if it's too high price the house won't appraise
and buyer won't get the loan. This may be true if you don't know how to
market the home properly. It's a number's game. The more potential buyers
you have, the greater your chance of finding someone who has no problem
putting 20-30% + as a down payment. If you're not skilled at influencing an
appraiser. If you don't have a good mortgage broker. If you have a scarcity
of buyers. Then yes, you need to compensate by lowering the or the price the
listing.
Like I said in previous posts. I would routinely put the home in the MLS and
in the For Sale By Owner system. At least 3% higher in the MLS. The MLS
consistently out performed the FSBO advertising. To not put them on the MLS,
you're simply getting their business by appealing to their innate greed. As
a Realtor you should know by now the MLS is the best way to go. If you have
a FSBO advertising system set up then use that too and price it lower in
that system. But to not put them on the MLS when you have it at your
disposal is pure negligence.
I started out at a company like yours. I too rationalized away the truth
that was staring me in the face. But if you have any sort of conscience
you're eventually going to become disillusioned.
In sales "the drop" is a method used by sales people who have no other
negotiating or sales skills. Drop the price. Drop your commission. Appeal to
the sellers greed. It's the easy way out. That's the only thing an unaided
FSBO has going for them. As a Realtor you have a lot more tools at your
disposal. You are not acting in the best interest of your client if not use
everything you have at your disposal.
With all due respect to your experience and expertise, I just don't buy what
you're saying. First of all, YES -- I have walked away from over-priced
listings. Why on earth do I want to price a home $30-$50k over it's comps,
MIS-LEAD the seller and tell them I can sell it, only for them to get upset
with me 3-5 months down the road when the house doesn't sell -- all the
while wasting MY time and my brokers money?? Net sheets mean nothing if you
know that the home isn't going to fetch what the seller is wanting to ask.
I find it hard to believe that you're able to sway an appraiser on the value
of a home. I don't know where you live, but around here appraisers have all
sorts of heat on them to be on the level... and very few IF ANY are willing
to fudge a report. That was very common back in the day... and you're
dating yourself by saying it can be done. Not so much anymore and good for
them!!! And -- GREAT!! Lets say you can convince an appraiser to fudge
the bottom line, what about the underwriter!? Last year alone I had two
underwriters *reject* the appraisal because they didn't feel the comps were
sufficient supporting documentation... both times it was on a 100% LTV -- I
hate 100% LTVs, but the market is so overly saturated with first time
buyers, that its more common to find those buyers than not. That's just the
way it is.

I also encourage my sellers to dual-price (list higher in the MLS) but for
whatever reason, some still don't choose to. As I mentioned in my previous
post, I always encourage my sellers to list in the MLS because their home
will PROBABLY sell faster. To say that it definitely will may be inaccurate
because you never know for sure. Believe me, I'm not here to say that FSBO
or limited service without the help of MLS is always the way to go..... FOR
SOME, yes... it's not necessary. I have had listings sell just fine without
it....but its not for every home -- mostly those priced outside of the first
time buyer range or those homes that are tucked away in the county that
don't have a lot of visibility.

"if you have any sort of conscience you're eventually going to become
disillusioned"?!?!?! I cannot rationalize making 3-6% on a $300,000 home.
Highway robbery!! But if YOU can sleep at night taking that much of
someone's hard-earned equity -- more power to you. I choose not to.
Steve Horrillo
2005-07-07 05:02:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by V
Last year alone I had two
underwriters *reject* the appraisal because they didn't feel the comps were
sufficient supporting documentation... both times it was on a 100% LTV -- I
hate 100% LTVs, but the market is so overly saturated with first time
buyers, that its more common to find those buyers than not. That's just the
way it is.
You only have one lender to choose from? Find another mortgage broker/banker
or if your Franchise or Broker forbids it find another one. "One man
gather's what the other one spills."
--
Warmest regards,

Steve Horrillo, Realtor / C.Ht.
http://BrokerAgentTraining.com http://over100percent.com http:/HipFSBO.com
http://eLOWn.com
Steve Horrillo
2005-07-07 05:27:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by V
I always encourage my sellers to list in the MLS because their home
will PROBABLY sell faster. To say that it definitely will may be inaccurate
because you never know for sure. Believe me, I'm not here to say that FSBO
or limited service without the help of MLS is always the way to go
So then you DO know that statistically it will sell faster and higher on the
MLS. Knowing that, how can you rationalize it's OK to allow them to think
they're the one who's going to beat the odds? It's like the motto they use
to get people to play lotto here in Florida... "You can't win if you don't
play." When the reality is closer to, "you can't lose if you don't play, and
if you do play you probably won't win." But that motto wouldn't sell as many
lottery tickets would it?

These marketing models appeal to a human's innate greed, thriftyness, and
ignorance of the way the system really works. It's a marketing angle that
looks good on a billboard but gets uglier the closer you look at it.

Keep in mind I worked for Buy Owner / MLS Realty. I've been there. Done
that. To the tune of about 1500 sellers.
--
Warmest regards,

Steve Horrillo, Realtor / C.Ht.
http://BrokerAgentTraining.com http://over100percent.com http:/HipFSBO.com
http://eLOWn.com
Steve Horrillo
2005-07-07 05:32:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by V
I cannot rationalize making 3-6% on a $300,000 home.
Highway robbery!! But if YOU can sleep at night taking that much of
someone's hard-earned equity -- more power to you. I choose not to.
If you know what you're doing you deserve it because it will give them a
greater return beyond the 3-6%. You're just selling yourself short. I did
too for the first couple of years. Keep on living life and you'll see what I
mean.
--
Warmest regards,

Steve Horrillo, Realtor / C.Ht.
http://BrokerAgentTraining.com http://over100percent.com http:/HipFSBO.com
http://eLOWn.com
Steve Horrillo
2005-07-08 06:34:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by V
Why on earth do I want to price a home $30-$50k over it's comps,
MIS-LEAD the seller and tell them I can sell it, only for them to get upset
with me 3-5 months down the road when the house doesn't sell -- all the
while wasting MY time and my brokers money?? Net sheets mean nothing if you
know that the home isn't going to fetch what the seller is wanting to ask.
I find it hard to believe that you're able to sway an appraiser on the value
of a home. I don't know where you live, but around here appraisers have all
sorts of heat on them to be on the level... and very few IF ANY are willing
to fudge a report. That was very common back in the day... and you're
dating yourself by saying it can be done. Not so much anymore and good for
them!!!
There's no need to pressure an appraiser when you have a good mortgage
broker. There's lenders that will even take BPO's in lieu of comps. As far
as appraisers go, there's plenty who are willing to stretch (not "fudge") a
report. The first thing an Appraiser is taught is appraisal is an art first
and a science second. Appraisers visit realty offices all the time telling
the Agent's they they're on their side. And my experience isn't "dated."
I've trained five appraisers last month alone.

Let me give you an example. I took a listing for a condo for 350k. The
highest comp was 300k. The sellers were getting divorced and needed that 50k
to get on with their lives. If not they were going to default and give it
back to the bank. I had one solid offer at 350k after two months on the
market. It didn't appraise being that the buyer had marginal credit and 10%
down. A month later a couple from South America bought it full price and it
all in cash and it closed in less than two weeks. If that had been you who
got to them they would have a foreclosure on their credit. And you with
nothing to show for it.

I had other cases where the buyers credit was so strong the lender didn't
care about the low appraisal. Yet another I got the lender to accept a BPO.
Post by V
Why on earth do I want to price a home $30-$50k over it's comps,
MIS-LEAD the seller and tell them I can sell it
If homes didn't sell over their comps there would never have been a housing
boom! I agree that if you don't truly believe you can sell the home over the
comps you see TODAY or 30-60 days BACK and don't have any foresight, you
shouldn't take the listing just to take the listing. But don't judge other's
because of your own lack of confidence or marketing expertise.

I have a custom report set up that averages the Sales Price to List Price
ratio for the past 2 years on any Agent I choose to look up. I then run it
up against their average days on the market and their percentage of
expired's to closed sales. Some average 120% while others average .80%. If
your LP/SP is low you and/or your broker need training. You don't need to be
walking away from listings.

Usually the one's with the highest ratios 1) Give the buyer's agents 3%+ or
what's traditional for the property type. 2) Display plenty of good photos
3) Have their properties on a COMBO lockbox. 4) Give the agents plenty of
description and use phrases like "easy show on combo lockbox" 5) Don't let
the seller put all sorts of contingencies 6) Give good directions to the
property. 7) Enhance their listings using realtor.com's Realtor Tools. 8)
Don't mis-spell street or subdivision names.
--
Warmest regards,

Steve Horrillo, Realtor / C.Ht.
http://BrokerAgentTraining.com http://over100percent.com http:/HipFSBO.com
http://eLOWn.com
V
2005-07-06 21:24:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Horrillo
Post by V
The point you made that
I *strongly* disagree with is that you'll only get results if you sell under
market value. I do not under-price homes nor does anyone in our office that
I know of.....we look at the same MLS system to pull comps as a full service
agent does. I refuse to list if it's grossly over-priced just like you or
anyone here probably has. My sellers have input as to where to price the
home, but I still reserve the right to accept the listing or not.
I find it hard to believe you walk away from overpriced listings. It's their
home, they have the right to at least try to sell it at the price they want.
They may need to sell it at that price or they won't have the money to
accomplish their goals or pay off the liens on the property. If you did a
Net Sheet you might discover that they have no choice but to over-price the
home. Do you do a Net Sheet? Do you know how to get a lender to take a Short
Sale?
Realtors, as part of their sales pitch, often use the rationalization that
if the owner initially puts the price too high, "they miss out on the
initial "buzz" that's created among the Butyer's Agents. That's true if you
don't have any skill beyond what the average Realtor has. At any time you
can cancel that listing and republish it with a new price, pictures and MLS
Number. This causes a whole new set of emails to be sent out as well. Not to
mention you should send out emails to all the Agents in your area. When I do
that I get 20-30 responses that I would ordinarily not have had. Do you have
a method for bulk emailing fellow agents? My list is 50,000 and growing.
When your client's home gets shown do you follow up with the Agent to see
why they didn't put in an offer? Do you offer them ways to try to compel
their client to buy? Do you try to get the seller to sweeten the terms
rather that lowering the price.
They also rationalize that if it's too high price the house won't appraise
and buyer won't get the loan. This may be true if you don't know how to
market the home properly. It's a number's game. The more potential buyers
you have, the greater your chance of finding someone who has no problem
putting 20-30% + as a down payment. If you're not skilled at influencing an
appraiser. If you don't have a good mortgage broker. If you have a scarcity
of buyers. Then yes, you need to compensate by lowering the or the price the
listing.
Like I said in previous posts. I would routinely put the home in the MLS and
in the For Sale By Owner system. At least 3% higher in the MLS. The MLS
consistently out performed the FSBO advertising. To not put them on the MLS,
you're simply getting their business by appealing to their innate greed. As
a Realtor you should know by now the MLS is the best way to go. If you have
a FSBO advertising system set up then use that too and price it lower in
that system. But to not put them on the MLS when you have it at your
disposal is pure negligence.
I started out at a company like yours. I too rationalized away the truth
that was staring me in the face. But if you have any sort of conscience
you're eventually going to become disillusioned.
In sales "the drop" is a method used by sales people who have no other
negotiating or sales skills. Drop the price. Drop your commission. Appeal to
the sellers greed. It's the easy way out. That's the only thing an unaided
FSBO has going for them. As a Realtor you have a lot more tools at your
disposal. You are not acting in the best interest of your client if not use
everything you have at your disposal.
I thought you might be interested in reading this. It discusses the need
for passing up on unmotivated sellers or those wishing to sell for an
inflated asking price.

http://www.brokeragentnews.com/news/residential/2005_7/7_4_2005_xr_1120503798.html
Steve Horrillo
2005-07-07 06:07:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by V
I thought you might be interested in reading this. It discusses the need
for passing up on unmotivated sellers or those wishing to sell for an
inflated asking price.
http://www.brokeragentnews.com/news/residential/2005_7/7_4_2005_xr_1120503798.html
If they don't tell me the reason and timeframe they need to sell in by
phone, I don't set the appointment. I try to contact the spouse. If that
doesn't work I wait.

She's talking about "unmotivated" sellers. Those sort you should have
sceened out by phone. You wind up infront of these people because you aren't
qualifying them before you get there or somone else is setting the
appointment and they're throwing a buch of crap on the wall hoping some of
it will stick.

There is a such thing as a motivated seller that has special needs, or needs
to start at a certain price for peace of mind sake. The author also seems to
forget that there's almost always two sellers to contend with. The husband
AND the wife. Rarely do they have the same price in mind. Rarely do they
both have the same level of motivation. It's often a balancing between the
two.

You may have to price it high to satisfy one partner yet 1) make sure to get
a price reduction pre-signed to please the other (and yourself). 2) Protect
you and your broker's interests by puting in the contract that your listing
is to be extended during those times the house is off the market once an
offer is accepted. 3) Get permission to take backup offers.
--
Warmest regards,

Steve Horrillo, Realtor / C.Ht.
http://BrokerAgentTraining.com http://over100percent.com http:/HipFSBO.com
http://eLOWn.com
Steve Horrillo
2005-07-04 20:32:58 UTC
Permalink
any experiences , you might share?
--
Money doesn't just talk, it swears.
A URL???
LB
Go to www.helpusell.com. I use their website and one's like them to find
bargains, being that the seller will likely either grossly overprice or
under price their home. If your home sells quick in one of these systems
It's very likely your home was bought by an Investor or Agent.
--
Warmest regards,

Steve Horrillo, Realtor / C.Ht.
http://BrokerAgentTraining.com (MLXchange & Computer Training for Real
Estate Professionals)
http://over100percent.com (Realtors Earn Over 100 Percent at EXIT Realty)
http:/HipFSBO.com (Object to Paying Commission? Find a FSBO Friendly Real
Estate Professional)
http://eLOWn.com ("Got a heartbeat?" Get a loan! Credit Repair Library)
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